batmangambit:

luckster31:

I literally started crying in the cinema at this because seriously fuck you, Steve. There are so many people going ~SEXUAL TENSION~. But no. No. This is just cruel. And tony’s comebacks are in no way even close to being as mean; for tony they’re rather weak and stumbly. Because do you see his face there? Steve just fucking ripped him to shreds. And i’m crying now; this just breaks my heart. You’ve seen the footage, Steve? Really? Have you really? You’ve seen him as he watched kids being killed by his own weapons? You’ve seen him being tortured? You’ve seen the only person who believed in him as a person die in front of him? Do you actually get that there is a fucking hole in his chest? That the fact that he’s even alive is a fucking miracle like a hundred times over. One which he’s clawed into existence with his own hands and genius. You’ve seen the closest person he had to a father literally rip his heart from his chest? You’ve seen how he then had to kill that closest person he had to a father? You’ve seen how he was dying all alone and yet STILL attempted to save everyone around him? WITHOUT HIS SUIT Oh yeah you’ve seen the fucking footage haven’t you? I don’t think you get, Steve how much you can’t take those words back. Years from now they’re still going to be rattling around in tony’s head echoing every crappy thought he’s ever had about himself. It just makes me so mad. I love you Steve, but nothing justifies what you said to him. Nothing.

All of this. This is the reason why I haven’t reblogged this gif set in particular because Steve’s completely stepping out of line here. I gasped in the movie theater when this exchange happened. I desperately wanted Steve to take those words back. Yes, they eventually mutually respect one another towards the end, but look at Tony’s eyes after this. The tightening of his jaw. He wants to say something—to defend himself, but he won’t. He has never seen himself as the hero. Not like Steve is. So why should he defend himself? He’s just a man who you can buy in tens right, Steve? In Howard’s mind, Steve could do no wrong. Steve was the better man—the best man Howard has ever known. It was never Tony. Remember that throwaway line Tony gave to Bruce? How his father wouldn’t shut up about Steve? I’m not certain Howard said anything along the lines of “You’ll never be as great as Steve Rogers.” to Tony, but how much his father praised Steve, it obviously hurt his ego. However, I’m happy that both could see how well they could balance each other out in the end. Steve’s idealism is something that Tony admires, but it’s also something he needs to keep in check with his realism. While Tony’s craving for acceptance is something that Steve gives on instinct. I’d like to point out the scene when the engine was pretty much shot. Both fell to the ground, and what did Steve do? He picked up Tony first. They were fighting not two seconds ago, and Steve’s still helping this man. Tony realizes this, swats his hand away at first, but Steve presses on. He grabs Tony’s elbow again and pulls him up. I just hope that Steve understands how much his opinion of Tony will matter in the future.

gyzym:

luckster31:

I literally started crying in the cinema at this because seriously fuck you, Steve. There are so many people going ~SEXUAL TENSION~. But no. No. This is just cruel. And tony’s comebacks are in no way even close to being as mean; for tony they’re rather weak and stumbly. Because do you see his face there? Steve just fucking ripped him to shreds. And i’m crying now; this just breaks my heart. You’ve seen the footage, Steve? Really? Have you really? You’ve seen him as he watched kids being killed by his own weapons? You’ve seen him being tortured? You’ve seen the only person who believed in him as a person die in front of him? Do you actually get that there is a fucking hole in his chest? That the fact that he’s even alive is a fucking miracle like a hundred times over. One which he’s clawed into existence with his own hands and genius. You’ve seen the closest person he had to a father literally rip his heart from his chest? You’ve seen how he then had to kill that closest person he had to a father? You’ve seen how he was dying all alone and yet STILL attempted to save everyone around him? WITHOUT HIS SUIT Oh yeah you’ve seen the fucking footage haven’t you? I don’t think you get, Steve how much you can’t take those words back. Years from now they’re still going to be rattling around in tony’s head echoing every crappy thought he’s ever had about himself. It just makes me so mad. I love you Steve, but nothing justifies what you said to him. Nothing.

Okay, YOU GUYS KNOW MY TONY FEELS ARE LEGION, and of course this scene got me right in the sympathetic arc reactor and everything, RIGHT IN THE FEELINGS, but. I think, first and foremost, that this film reminded me of something I’d kind of forgotten in the last few months of FEELS FROM TRAILERS etc: these are people. Uh. Violent people? Who have killed…other people…I mean, in the name of justice, typically, but still. They don’t exactly operate the way other people do; in fact, their (and I mean the whole team, here) mutual tendencies towards being barbed, guarded, overdramatic, mistrusting and hinged, identity-wise, to the idea that they have to save people to have worth is kind of. Um. What makes them superheroes? And of course that doesn’t excuse the fact that Steve is verbalizing Tony’s worst fears here, but at the same time, he doesn’t KNOW they’re Tony’s worst fears, and also I think a certain amount of emotional carnage has to be tax deductible when you get a group like this together? So I don’t think it’s about whether or not Steve can/should be forgiven for this so much as whether he (and Tony) can recognize that he’s incorrect, which they both seem to by the end of the film, considering Tony DOES make that play. 

And, secondly, from Steve’s end of things? This entire exchange is about Bucky Barnes. Probably all of the Howling Commandos, actually (don’t forget, Steve’s “Is this the first time you’ve lost a soldier?” is coming from a place of SERIOUS EXPERIENCE), but especially Bucky Barnes. We know he’s having flashbacks, because we see them onscreen; we know he’s not handling the future well, because we see it in his exchanges with Fury, with the punching bags; we know Bucky’s death ripped him apart, because we saw it in TFA. And we see that here. Allow me to translate: 

• “I know guys with none of that worth ten of you” —> “MY BEST FRIEND BUCKY BARNES DIDN’T EVEN HAVE SUPER POWERS AND HE WAS AMAZING AND IF HE’D HAD A BIG IRON SUIT HE WOULD’VE BEEN ABLE TO FLY AWAY FROM THAT TRAIN AUGHHHHHH BUCKYYYYYYY” 
• “I’ve seen the footage; the only thing you fight for is yourself” —> “THERE ARE ALL THESE VIDEOS OF YOU FIGHTING STUFF AND NONE OF MY FRIEND BUCKY BARNES AND I HAVE TO WORK WITH YOU AND YOU ARE NOT BUCKY, HOW DARE YOU NOT BE BUCKY AUGHHHHHHH BUCKYYYYYYYY” 
• “You’re not the guy to make the sacrifice play” —> “BUCKY SACRIFICED HIMSELF FOR ME AND IT HAUNTS ME EVERY MOMENT OF EVERY DAY AUGHHHHH BUCKYYYYY” 
• “To lay down on a wire to let the other the other guy crawl over you” —> “MY IDEA OF MODERN WARFARE IS STILL FAIRLY HEAVILY BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE IN WORLD WAR II WHICH I FOUGHT IN WITH A SQUADRON OF MEN I HANDPICKED AND TRUSTED TO DO THAT FOR ME, ESPECIALLY BUCKY WHO YOU STILL AREN’T AUGH BUCKYYYYYYYYYYYY” 
• “Always a way out” —> “LIKE BUCKY DIDN’T HAVE AUGHHHHHH BUCKY.” 

I mean, look, Steve’s totally being a bit of a bag of dicks here, no doubt, but he doesn’t actually KNOW Tony, really. He’s projecting. And these people are bound to be bags of dicks sometimes! So I think it’s less about excusing or not excusing their behavior and more about considering where it comes from, what it means, and how it’s going to affect things in the future. In conclusion: AUGH BUCKY. 

gyzym:

 #just look at tony’s face #fucking look at his expression #steve’s kind of just. staring #and tony’s fucking heartbroken #you can see it in his eyes. his heart? it’s broken #all over the fucking place

Goddamn it I really thought I was done with the part of my life where I choked on Tony feelings and spat them all over tumblr, OKAY, HERE WE GO, SORRY GUYS. Trigger warning for discussion of suicide—that’s in the tags too, and kind of obvious given the content of the gif, but for real, trigger warning for discussion of suicide. 

Here’s the deal: Tony Stark has long been in the business of making self-destructive look good. I don’t even really mean that as tongue in cheek—at the end of the day, until he gets to the point where he literally can’t anymore, that is what Tony does. Dying of blood poisoning? Play it cool, don’t mention it, hop in a race car, throw a wild party. Feeling worthless and unloved? Egg someone on, put on a super suit, risk your life, put it all on the line. Even Tony as we see him in The Avengers, who is clearly supposed to be in a healthier place than the Tony we get to know in IM & IM2, doesn’t hesitate to fly that nuke into the portal, even though he knows it’s almost certain death, and this is because Tony Stark has been courting almost certain death his whole life. Tony Stark, in many ways, really can be summed up with the question, “You got any other bad ideas?” 

And this is, of course, why he’s so quick to understand Bruce, why it matters so much to him that Bruce start looking at himself differently—in some ways, the things Tony says to Bruce are things he wants to say to himself, but never could for whatever reason (years of self-loathing/years of forcible emotional repression/years of neglect and abandonment issues/what have you). Tony really is a fan of the way Bruce loses control and becomes a giant green rage monster, because he gets what it is to not feel like you’re in charge of part of yourself, and to hate that part of yourself as a result. On top of that, Bruce is incredibly intelligent and incredibly self-possessed until he isn’t—of course he strikes a nerve. He would have struck a nerve even if Tony didn’t find himself liking the guy, which he visibly does. 

And then there’s this scene, and it guts him. It guts him because he’s beginning to care about Bruce, of course, but they haven’t really known each other that long, so that’s not all of what’s going on. No, this guts him because this act—the finality of what Bruce tried to do—is a line Tony himself has never crossed. He’s courted death, sure; hell, he’s even knocked on death’s door and yelled “Open up, you asshole, what do you want me to do, just sit out here forever? You just gonna leave me here? Really?” Tony has drank himself into a stupor and thrown himself into situations he shouldn’t have gotten out of, Tony has exacerbated a terminal condition because it was better to die than give up doing the only thing that made him feel like living, Tony has wanted to die, or thought he wanted to. But Tony has never put a gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger. He’s courted death, but he’s never demanded it that way, and the fact that Bruce—with whom he shares so many traits, and for whom he has so much more respect than he has for himself—has gotten to that point, has been brought that low, is fucking heartbreaking. 

The thing is, though: Tony Stark has one of the more intense savior complexes in a cadre of people with savior complexes, and I think this moment was necessary on a lot of different levels. Before this, Tony’s trying (whether he knows it or not, and I’d argue that he doesn’t, at least not fully) to save Bruce—after this, Tony trusts that Bruce will save himself, is there to be support for that instead. And that’s so much healthier for both of them, and much more solid ground for whatever you see in this relationship, be it romance or friendship or team camaraderie.

TL;DR: TONY, BRUCE, I HAVE A LOT OF FEELINGS ABOUT YOU GUYS.  

psifitopia:

maratini:

gyzym:

god, tony stark and his COMPLICATED BEHAVIORAL REWARDS SYSTEM, OH MAN

okay, i promise that one day i will learn to control the tony feelings, but the thing is, i have been trying to put my finger on this one for such a looooong time. because, see, tony stark is weird about stuff, isn’t he? and i don’t mean like, the existential version of stuff, i don’t mean “stuff” in the most general sense (although, let’s be honest, TONY STARK: WEIRD ABOUT STUFF is true in pretty much every context)—i am talking PHYSICAL stuff, INANIMATE stuff, i am talking stuff that a person can possess. i am talking things. i am talking tony in IM springing a lavish personal plane party on rhodey, clearly both because he felt like it and to prove that he could; i am talking tony in IM2 giving pepper the company out of the blue, clearly both because he knew she was the best choice for CEO (UGH PEPPER I LOVE YOU) and because he genuinely wanted her to have it. i am talking tony at the middle of the avengers offering to fly coulson to portland, i am talking tony at the end of the avengers with plans pulled up to build everyone on the team their own FLOOR—you see what i am saying here. tony stark expresses a considerable amount of emotion through gestures like this, and that in and of itself shouldn’t be enough to give me pause. i mean, canonically extraordinarily wealthy emotionally repressed genius expresses affection with cash? it’s not a stretch. fine. done. 

ONLY THE THING IS, it’s…really so much more complicated than that, because there is also the shit in the above gifs, and there’s the thing he has about being handed things (seen in IM2 and in the avengers), and it really came together for me during that scene with bruce and the blueberries. because the thing is that quirks, no matter how random they are, COME from somewhere—even if you don’t remember the impetus of an unusual behavior, you did, at some point, learn to do it/find comfort in it/become dependent on it/get so used to it that you hardly notice it. that’s just how quirks work. and if you’re tony stark, and you put a valuation on everything because that’s been literally your entire life experience, there’s a certain amount of implied cost/benefit analysis that has to go into the way you look at emotional interactions, right? 

so look at what this shit says about the way tony looks at himself. people who tony doesn’t completely, 100% trust emotionally (this is why pepper is the exception) can’t even hand him things, because on some level tony associates the exchange of physical goods with the exchange of emotional response, and he won’t be capable of giving it; people who have showed tony affection or friendship deserve these lavish, over-the-top gifts, because putting up with tony is such a struggle. and tony himself? well, for surviving a kidnapping and the insertion of car battery, and then an arc reactor, in his chest, he has earned an american cheeseburger. for fighting off an invading army and making the sacrifice move neither he nor steve believed he would, he has earned himself some shawarma. because that is totally what he’s doing, when you really think about it—tony stark doles out physical rewards for behavior, without even noticing it, and the best he ever honestly thinks he deserves is something delicious when the carnage is over. 

and this is what makes that blueberry scene with bruce (shut up i know calling it the blueberry scene is ridiculous, I KNOW IT IS IN FACT A SCENE ABOUT THE AVENGERS NOT TRUSTING NICK FURY, i can’t help that i look at the world through stark-tinted glasses) so interesting, in that it’s that behavior-reward system on a much smaller scale. first bruce is offered the blueberries, clearly as a reward for making a point that supported tony’s argument; then steve, clearly as a TEST, is offered those same blueberries along with tony’s admitting to hacking the SHIELD system. and it’s when steve doesn’t even acknowledge the offer that tony goes from “hey look I’m trying to explain this to you and get you onboard” to “who’s in a spangly outfit and not of use?” because he’s got all these emotional cues tangled up with all these physical ones and always has, and because on some level this is just how he does relating to human beings, because stuff is so much easier and everything always has a price and just, augh, tony. 

Thisssss.

Also, notice that every time we see Tony with food in the MCU there is some emotional tie to it. He rewards himself with food (cheeseburger, donuts, shawarma) after traumatic experiences; he brings Pepper strawberries when he attempts to confess his feelings; he offers Bruce and Steve blueberries when courting their allegiance/friendship. Also I think it’s HUGELY telling that he invites all the Avengers along for shawarma instead of wandering off to get it alone. Tony’s big on the grand gestures, sure, but when he’s trying to make a big emotional play? he does it with food.

Hmm. Does alcohol count as food, then?  This makes his offering Loki a drink much more interesting, instead of just amusing.

“Over all the millennia, only you have ever loved me, Thor. Only you have ever looked at me with affection in place of condescension. Why, then, am I killing you, and not the others? Because you stopped.”